I’m very excited to introduce Dan Munro founder of The Inspirational Lifestyle who I met during my intensive 3 month Coaching Mastermind Workshop with Jacob Sokal, founder of Sensophy. (someone else you will likely want to check out!)
For a little context, the mastermind program was limited to 10 via application only and we all formed very tight relationships as we intensified our own coaching businesses. I was VERY impressed with Dan Munro (and LOVE his New Zealand accent 😉 ) and the level of expertise he brings to his coaching practice.
Dan focuses on CONFIDENCE and finding your PURPOSE and offers very practical methods for being able to become the observer of your thoughts to reduce your anxiety and stress. (as he refers to ACT = Acceptance and Commitment Therapy)
So first thing to do is identify what is REAL! We also dig into not attaching to your thoughts and interrupting your patterns.
AND we dive deep into what it means to be a MAN in a post feminist world.
AND a BIG AHA was when we discussed bringing confidence into your RE business when you’re negotiating your commissions. Dan said
“You don’t wait to feel confident before you hold strong, you hold strong to feel confident.” THAT’s a TWEETABLE!!
POWERFUL STUFF that I’m sure you’ll be intrigued by Dan’s insights! You might even say this is a ‘conversation that matters’! (See what I did there? 😉 ) Enjoy!
AND Dan is also an author/contributor for A Better Me Magazine
(And if you like these CTM’s, please pass them on and follow US at Agent Quest on Facebook!)
Teri:Hi, everybody! Welcome to Conversations that Matter. I’m Teri Conrad, and we are having conversations for hungry minds and hearty discussions; that’s what we’re doing. I have a very special guest with me today. I want to introduce all my people to Daniel Munro. The way that I know Daniel Munro is that we just went through a three-month intensive life coaching mastermind workshop with the ever-popular Jacob Sokal from Sensophy. Actually Daniel is coming to us from Auckland, if you can believe it or not, aren’t you?
Daniel:That’s right, yeah, way down at the bottom of the world!
Teri:That’s why we’re having him on the program, frankly; it’s for no other reason just to listen to him talk because he’s got a great accent.
Daniel:Right. I’ve heard we sound slow, like there’s something a little bit mentally wrong. If you can accept me for that then I’ll accept you for yours as well.
Teri:That’s sweet of you. Thanks so much. Welcome and thank you for joining me. Just so you know, our conversations that matter are really directed towards the real estate vertical primarily, but all of my real estate people are also people first. As you know, we talked about this many times, I’m trying to infuse the life coaching aspect into the business coaching as well. We’re all people first. We all struggle with a lot of the same issues, and you can’t be successful unless you’re happy in your life first. That’s why you and I know each other and I’m so thrilled to know you. Just for our audience’s sake, I’ll let you know that Daniel has done extremely well in his career as a life coach. How long have you been doing it fulltime, Daniel, not long?
Daniel:Yeah, March this year, 2014, I went fulltime. I’ve completely lost track; it feels like a billion years ago. What is that? I don’t do math, six, seven months’ fulltime. I did about 12 months or so part-time before that.
Teri:Right. Here’s where you can so relate to my audience because you are the hardworking entrepreneur who’s been launching a new business, but you’ve just knocked it out of the park, particularly on the heels of our workshop. How many fulltime clients are you working with now?
Daniel:I think I’m up to about eight. I’m aiming to get to maybe ten before it’s too much for my brain to handle. I want to make sure that everybody has that personal attention, so yeah I’m up to about eight now. I feel like I’ve finally just crossed that bridge into understanding how you book yourself solid. Understanding how you create too much work for yourself rather than not enough. That was a long process getting to that point.
Teri:No kidding, no kidding! I definitely want to go down there some more. Let’s dig into that in a moment but first let’s give people an idea who you are, why I think you’re so fabulous. We’ve had a couple of conversations and you gave me a little bit of your history, and I would love for you to share where you came from, when, your work history – you used to work in a prison. Can you share that story with everybody?
Daniel:Sure. Technically, I wasn’t working in the prison that often. I was working with people once they got out of prison. I was a probation officer to start off with. I think you guys probably call it a parole officer over there. I worked mainly with guys on parole, so they’d served a large majority of their sentence in prison and they came out and I worked with them. I specialized in working with the higher end offenders, so life parolees, murderers, and sex offenders, the tricky people.
Teri:The fun, happy people!
Daniel:Yeah, yeah. What was really interesting in working with them is the skills that I learned. It’s the effect those exercises and tools have on somebody who’s not a murderer and not a gang member, and actually wants help, it explodes with people like that because it’s designed to try and shift people who absolutely do not want to be moved, so I found that experience really good.
What it also taught be about humans is that – I’d say maybe 3% of the people I worked with I’d actually put in the evil category. Like psychology’s not up to fixing them yet and they need to be kept away from society. The rest, they’ve got goodness in them and they have this dark side, like we all do. We all break certain rules that we know are rules and [00:04:35] our own morals. These people are just on the extreme end of the spectrum.
It’s just interesting that people have this idea that offenders are a separate group of people, when actually they’re just extreme behavior versions of ourselves. We all have those tendencies. We all have that darkness. Yeah that’s where I started my work. I moved up through the chain in corrections and I overshot. I was so hard out trying to learn how to promote myself, and I was taking big pride being the youngest in the role all the time and being a big shot that I got further and further away from working directly with offenders and started to get really dissatisfied with the work.
I wanted to be one on one with people and I didn’t realize that just climbing the ladder in itself wasn’t enough of a reward. It’s the work itself that was rewarding. Chasing the money didn’t actually – I got the money but it didn’t get me what I wanted. I had to learn that the only way you can learn it, by getting the money and then realizing that it’s not doing what it’s supposed to do. That’s when I started exploring other options, which eventually led me to coaching.
Teri:Which you’re an absolute natural with. I’ve been fortune enough to be coached by you a couple of times and it was always very profound. You have amazing skill. Here’s where I think the conversation gets really interesting. Help our people understand, what is life coaching? It sounds so hairy-fairy, you know what I mean? Help me understand why do you do what you do? How is that you’re moving the needle forward for people?
Daniel:Right, well there’s a great distinction I want to make because I don’t call myself a life coach. I don’t know, I don’t like the term, it’s too vague or something. It indicates that you think you’re an expert at living, which I don’t want to ever call myself. I call myself a confidence coach. The reason I focus on confidence is because I see that as the fuel for everything else.
You look at people who do exceptionally well in different areas and by that I mean they actually enjoy their lives as well. They’re not just achieving, but they’re happy and calm and peaceful during that achievement.
Teri:Which is exactly what I tell my people all the time; I don’t care how much money you’re making, you’re not successful if you’re not first happy.
Daniel:Exactly! There’s some people out there – I know a guy who makes tens of millions of dollars; he’s one of the richest men in New Zealand and I always use him as an example – I hope he never sees us – but he’s just so typical mid-life crisis. He bought the big car and he cheats on his wife and he drinks, and he’s just the absolute picture of why success is not just about how much you have. It’s not just about how much you’ve won. If you didn’t enjoy the wins along the way, if you didn’t get internal satisfaction out of those wins, you didn’t really win.
What I like to work with people on is finding that deep satisfaction. I think authenticity is the word that’s come up for me the most lately. What I see it as is an alignment between who you are and who you wish you were. It’s bridging that gap. When people can bridge that gap, they wake up feeling successful. There’s no, I could have done better at the end of the day because you know you did everything you could and you obeyed your own rules. Most people don’t obey their own rules. I should do this, but I did this. I know that’s important but I did this instead. That requires courage and that’s what I need to be doing but instead I did this. They feel that gap and that gap’s a really unpleasant feeling.
Teri:I think Jacob said an example for us at one point, was that’s where that ladder and how many rungs on the ladder. I can’t remember, do you remember how he described that?
Daniel:Were there two ladders, I think. One is the measurable success and then the others how you feel about it, or something like that.
Teri:Like the gap between where you feel that your highest potential is and where you’re actually currently living, that gap. As much as you can mitigate that gap is how happy you’re going to be on the scale of success. I think that actually makes sense to me. I can certainly identify periods in my life where I have felt that there’s a larger gap and I am definitely rockier; I’m not solid. I feel like that’s actually a really great analogy.
Daniel:Yeah, the big mission is understanding that to bridge the gap is hard. Life is constantly throwing temptations that are more easy but are actually making that gap bigger. Being lazy, being cowardly in the way you approach life, which we all do; that’s not an insult towards anyone.
I heard a great quote and I can never get it right when I say it. It’s something along the lines of, living the hard way gets you the easy life, and living the easy way gets you the hard life. That wording is almost definitely incorrect but for me that basically says it all. If you want to wake up feeling like you’re the best you could possibly be, like you’re at your top performance and there’s nothing more you could ask from yourself, then you have to do the hard things not just the easy things.
Teri:It’s so true. We all feel so much better about ourselves when we’ve challenged ourselves and we’ve met the challenge. Or even if we didn’t meet the challenge, at least we tried and we can pat ourselves on the back for a good effort. It’s when you live small and you’re not even really making that attempt, you’re just living in fear and protecting yourself, that you’re unsatisfied because there really is nothing to be proud of.
Daniel:Exactly! You haven’t earned it. Whatever it is you’ve got, you don’t feel that you’ve earned it. I don’t know there’s this quick fix mentality, this illusion that you can get what you want without paying. There’s some illusion out there that actually there’s a completely pain-free way of attaining whatever your dream is.
Teri:The magic film.
Daniel:Yeah. If people can just understand, actually no there is always going to be pain of some kind. You get to choose what kind of pain it is. That’s the great choice you get. You can either take the pain of anxiety and uncertainty and fear, which is the short-term pain, in order to do what’s right. Or you can avoid that pain and get the immediate sensation of relief and comfort but that comes with a payment, and that payment is the long-term pain of regret and remorse and all that kind of pain that comes from not living the way you want to be living.
Teri:Isn’t that the truth!
Daniel:There’s going to be pain. If you can accept that, you’re going to go a lot further. Actually, the short-term pain is so much better. There’s this little sharp disgusting uncomfortable feeling that then gets a nice big long-term reward afterwards. When you’re going to bed at the end of the day and you think, wow, I did all that stuff that I wish I had done. I actually lived up to my own expectations. It’s a great feeling.
Teri:I love that. Let me give you an example. I got an email from a girl yesterday, a potential customer, who was reaching out and loved what we’re doing, was super-excited about the messaging and our spirit and clearly what appears to be my ambition and my passion. Yet she was stuck on – her habits have been that she throws money. Every time she needs something, she throws money at it. She’s reluctant to buy our program because she felt that she’d just be throwing money at it again.
My response to her was, well, maybe you’re not quite ready yet then. Maybe this isn’t really what you’re looking for because it isn’t a quick fix. I can walk you through it. I can help you. I can set an action plan in place for you and a marketing plan, but ultimately it was always going to be hard work. It’s going to hurt a little bit and the leads are not just going to fall in your lap.
How do you handle your clients? When people come to you and they’re like, I’m so stuck. How do you walk them through that place when they’re not quite ready to invest themselves or do the work?
Daniel:I think one of the best things I can do is actually create that pain for them right there in the moment. I call it creating a crisis. Rather than waiting five years to have a big crisis, you can actually bring that moment to the present. That crisis is simply understanding that the actions you’re taking right now are writing your future.
What I like to often do is I’ll say something like if your future self, five years from now, could call you on the phone, what would they tell you to do. Things like that where they can actually envision their future and extrapolate their current activity to see what the results will be. Most people are pretty happy to buy into the concept that if you keep doing what you’ve always been doing, you’ll get what you always get. Yet at the same time, they refuse to acknowledge that’s what they’re doing right now. They refuse to see the future taking place.
Teri:Don’ you find that most people get so stuck in the forest that they just can’t see those trees, right. When you explain it like that it makes perfect sense. It’s so simple; every idiot can understand and grasp that. When you’re in there, when it’s your life and the problems are right there, you’re so fixated on them, it’s so difficult sometimes for some people to really pull back and get that 10,000, 5th gear. How do you help people like that?
Daniel:Yeah, well there’s actually two different aspects there. One is the very process of attaching to thoughts. That’s what I call fusion. Well I don’t call it that, it’s a psychological term. Fusing to a thought makes it bigger than what it is. It turns a thought into reality, when actually a thought is just a thought. It’s a temporary wave inside your mind that often has no connection to real truth. It’s just your mind babbling, but you can attach to one little bit of that babble and turn it into this massive thing.
For that particular aspect of it, what I work with, with my clients is on mindfulness and diffusion, understanding that one of the ways to let thoughts slide away rather than creating a reality out of them. There’s a lot of philosophies and stuff that people get into right now that actually creates more fusion. I might piss some people off when I say this, Law of Attraction is one.
Law of Attraction is where you hard-out wish for things, which is actually the process of fusion.
Daniel:You’re attaching yourself to thoughts and you’re creating a reality out of your thoughts. Rather than understanding that a thought is like a mood or a temperature or a physical sensation, it just comes and goes; it has not consistency until you attach to it.
One of the great things that I like to work with is called psychological flexibility; the ability to be as present as possible and as detached as possible from your own thinking. It sounds on the surface – when I first heard of it I was like, how can you enjoy life so detached. It’s not detached in coldness; it’s not like psychopathically detached. It’s detached in the idea where you see a thought for what it really is, which is just a temporary thing. If you can detach from thoughts, you can actually enjoy what’s really happening, and this is what mindfulness is about.
A more practical tip for your audience is whenever you’re finding yourself stressed out and anxious and repeating a thought pattern inside your head and getting worked up about it, start finding sensations in the current moment to widen your experience and conscious awareness. You might for example choose five things to identify visually and then listen for three different sounds. Try to find the temperature on your forehead with just the sensation of your skin. Try to find the taste in your mouth. Try to find the feeling of [inner 00:16:48] leaving and entering your body while you breathe. This will create a space where the thought won’t be the whole vision anymore. It will have to make room for all this other stuff that’s actually happening right now. When you do that, suddenly you’re like, oh what was that thought again because it’s gone. That’s what a real thought is, it comes and goes.
In terms of getting stressed and anxious, that’s always heavily related to fusion [00:17:18] —
Teri:Especially in real estate; this happens all the time. We get very stressed and anxious.
Daniel:Yeah, I didn’t close that sale; I’m useless. I’m never going to be able to close a sale again. Those are just thoughts. They’re about as relevant as having a thought, I’m having an elephant or I can fly. They’re as true as those thoughts, and you can have those thoughts. Right now, I’d ask your viewers, or your audience, to conjure up thoughts that are completely false. Conjure up a thought, I am a cheer, or conjure up the thought that I can make things levitate, whatever. You can make this stuff happen in your minds. It’s just to show you that a thought can be create without even the remotest evidence of truth.
It’s understanding that a thought is just a thought will create a lot more peace in your life. It will allow you to let a thought just play. When it goes, I’m useless, you just go, oh I’m having a thought that I’m useless and now it’s gone.
Teri:I usually refer to that as you become the observer, so it’s not like you’re in your life —
Daniel:That’s exactly what it is.
Teri:You’re not in your body having that thought. You’re up here watching yourself have that thought and you are detached from the emotion of that thought, very similar.
Daniel:Yeah. This is really the power of now, Eckhart Tolle sort of stuff. Some people call it the observer; that’s what I call it, and ACT therapy, which is what I’m talking about for the most part. They call it the observing self. It’s the one constant that’s always been there. Your thoughts will always change, your moods always change, your physical bodies always change but some ‘you’ has always been there. The way they describe it in ACT, which I like, is it’s the chess board. All the pieces are moving all the time.
Teri:Sorry, to interrupt. What does ACT stand for again?
Daniel:It’s acceptance and commitment therapy. It’s a psychological practice based heavily in mindfulness and psychological flexibility. That’s the overarching thing. It’s used to treat chronic pain disorder, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression. It allow you to —
Daniel:Yeah. It works on just about everything but it all depends on the practitioner and how good they are with it. It’s the idea that most of the pain we create for ourselves is the way we react to pain, not the pain itself. The pain therefore —
Teri:Whoa, whoa, whoa, back up, back up, pain doesn’t exist; it’s just how I react to pain?
Daniel:Pain does exist but we extrapolate and we magnify it beyond reason.
Teri:Why do we do that?
Daniel:Because of this process of thinking because we are a type of animal that thinks with language. This is a natural byproduct of that. If you take being another kind of mammal, say a lion or a dog, they don’t think with language. They don’t have the words and imagery going in their minds like we do. They just have emotions and reactions. It’s very simplistic for them. They’re constantly mindful. They don’t have the ability to worry about the past, you know what I mean?
Daniel:They do have some skills – certain animals have different levels of skill. I’m going off track but the point is us humans, we think in language. If we can think in language then we’re going to have the whole range of language from negative to positive. That will always be there and understanding that none of it’s really truth; it’s just the noise of our mind talking. It’s the synapses firing and they create, in our conscious awareness, words and images.
If we attach to that, that’s when we turn it into something bigger. Let’s say you’ve got – depression is a great one. Depression can either be, I’m depressed, where you’ve attached to it and turned it into your identify and your truth and your reality. Or it can be an accurate view of it, like I’m feeling a constriction in my chest, and I’m having a negative thought pattern that keeps coming up. Rather than calling it depression and giving it this big power over you, you just see it for what it actually is, some thoughts and a feeling, a sensation. It takes the power out of it, the impact out of it.
Teri:It’s absolutely revolutionary. It’s funny but you know what this is like, Daniel. I’m sure there’s been times, dark times, in your life when you’re like, oh my God, I’m so stuck, I can’t get out of this. It’s like, you even know better. Intellectually you even know I could be better. I can just look at this as just a thought but oh my God, I want to slit my wrists slowly.
When you’re stuck in that pattern, that bad pattern, and I think that’s what it is. It’s almost like the bad habit where you’re indulging these thoughts over and over and over again and you just go down that rabbit hole. How do you pull yourself out of that?
Daniel:Yeah, so that’s a great question and the first part is a lot of it. The first part is actually going, well what’s reality right now. Rather than going, this thought is my reality, finding some sensations, finding taste and smell, a touch and audio and visual, and then making a bigger picture. You can see that little painful thought you’re having is just part of an overall picture rather than the entire picture, so zooming out.
I think of it as zooming out. You’re not trying to fight it. You’re not trying to distract yourself. You’re just incorporating everything else that’s happening and creating a realistic picture. It’s only fair. You’re not fair to yourself if you’re attaching to a thought because it’s giving – it’s like attaching to a sound and saying all there is, is that sound. That doesn’t make any sense because you know there’ more than that. People aren’t as fair when they come to their thoughts. They’ll attach to those and give them a greater sense than anything else.
Daniel:Yeah, yeah, people are crazy; we’re all crazy.
Teri:Yeah, we’re all crazy.
Daniel:With regards to getting stuck in the rabbit hole, as you put it, which I think is absolutely fantastic, the best way I like to deal with is to observe the pattern that’s taking place and try to initiate a pattern break. This is what I learned from working with offenders, coming full circle now, this is really it —
Teri:You did this on purpose now.
Daniel:Yeah, yeah, this is just how I planned. Working with offenders, we used to do these exercises called offence cycles. It comes from the understand that when somebody commits an offence, commit a crime, it’s not an impulsive thing, ever. There’s a big belief in society that crimes are impulsive crazy acts but they never are. There’s always a big story that builds up to a crime. Sometimes that story can take place in a couple of hours, so it seems impulsive, but it’s actually a conditioned pattern that the person has built up over time, in reaction to stimuli of some kind.
A common pattern, let’s say, for drink-driving might be it starts with the guy going into work on a Friday morning, driving his car, despite the fact he knows that there’ll be after-work drinks, so the story started in the morning. In fact the story started when he, again, working at a place that had after-works drinks and didn’t plan around that. Then there’ll be more in the pattern as the day goes on. He’s having a good time with his workmates. They’re joking about how good it’ll be to knock off early and have a few brews, so there’s patterns developing. At any point, he can choose to exit this pattern, but if he doesn’t he’s going to end up drink-driving. That’s a very simple one but these same patterns apply to all the most serious crimes: murder; aggravated robbery; drug dealing, there’s a pattern here.
Teri:In your opinion, most people recognize, or maybe don’t recognize, but they are making those decisions and taking those steps towards that outcome consciously?
Daniel:This is where it’s really difficult is they’re often doing it subconsciously. It’s an automatically conditioned pattern that they’ve developed over time. At one point it was conscious, but understanding that you’re in a pattern can actually be the first catalyst, self-awareness, where you can see the pattern taking place. There’s some steps in the pattern that people can start to look for.
What you can do is after you’ve had a bad episode, doing that thing that you wish you didn’t do, like beating yourself up over not closing a sale or getting anxiety about trying to start something, whatever it is; this thing that you keep doing, this pattern, is to put it down on paper and actually draw the pattern backwards. You got to the point where I’m beating myself up for not selling the sale. What happened before that and what happened before that and what happened before that? You just start working backwards until you find the kind of starting point.
Daniel:There’s always a starting point that seems to have no connection, often. Like I said, the first guy, the drink-driving guy, driving to work doesn’t seem to have any connection to getting drunk at the end of the day and driving, but that’s actually where the pattern starts. If he didn’t drive to work in the morning, he stops that pattern. He has to get a taxi home, his partner picks him up, workmates drop him off, whatever, so actually that’s where he could interrupt the pattern from the first bit.
Now there’s going to be other key points in your pattern where you can interrupt and move away; you can escape the pattern. Let’s say for example that one of your audience, they go through this pattern, they go to a, I don’t know, real estate, but they go to an open home that they’re hosting. They talk it through with clients and customers and they try to close and then they don’t. At the end of the day, they go home, they have a few wines, and they get really depressed and they start beating themselves up, and then the next day they call in sick. Then they miss out on more sales or whatever. This is a kind of pattern that maybe somebody gets in. I’m totally making this up.
Teri:I love this too because most of us don’t call in sick because we’re working from home, but I love that. We would call in sick.
Teri:We would just [00:27:31]
Daniel:You’d give up on something or whatever.
Daniel:You’ll see these key points. The first one is the early warning signs. Straight away, if you look at your pattern, you’ll see warning signs that you’re building up to that big nasty thing that you don’t want to be doing. Early warning sign might be like getting yourself down about the fact that you’re not going to close, before you’ve even got to work.
Teri:We call those limiting beliefs.
Daniel:Right, so you might be starting a conscious thought pattern where it’s like, nobody’s going to want it; I’m so useless. You might start reminiscing over all the other times you didn’t close, that kind of stuff. This is where your pattern starts. You’re already starting to sabotage your results. At that point of time, you can accept the pattern. You could choose to engage in some activity that removes from those thoughts, like the mindfulness. Every time those thoughts come in, you choose to do a bit of mindful meditation, find other sensory things, connect those thoughts —
Teri:Become the observer.
Daniel:Become the observer, let the thoughts slide away, or just accept the thoughts as just being thoughts, they are. One of my favorite things, as I get people to write out the story of everything they hate about themselves, and then they turn the page over and they write, aha, I know this story; it’s the ‘I hate myself’ story, or ‘I’m not good enough’ story. They can read over it every day and really buy into it and they turn the page over and just go, oh yes, that story again. That’s not reality; it’s just a story that’s always playing in the background. You could do something like that.
Maybe it’s something more simplistic. You can try all these different methods. Maybe you go for a run. Maybe you write down the last ten closes that you had, to remind yourself of how good you are at it. You choose to exit the pattern.
Teri:I find, in real estate in particularly, like in any other area of life, it’s a wave pattern or the pendulum or whatever you want to call it, it’s we’re swinging one way things are great, and then it swings back and things are not great. For whatever reason when things are not great or going exactly as you planned, suddenly you’re beating yourself up, you’re a loser, you can’t do anything right, la, la, la, la. Then when it all goes right, wow, I’m a rock star. It’s this crazy manic existence.
Daniel:Yeah. That is another topic on its own. I really think we should switch to that because I think this is also going to allow people to see some strategies to exit their pattern.
Daniel:One of the main things that causes that feast and famine rollercoaster ride is actually attaching your happiness to outcomes. Depending on your results is how good you feel about yourself.
Teri:Yes, absolutely. We are in an outcome society. We are looking for good results.
Daniel:When you sit down and think about it, how much of your results are actually under your control?
Daniel:Think of all the variables involved. Let’s say, your result is selling a house or not selling a house. Can you control the other person buying that house?
Teri:No. All that I can control is how well I present it, understanding and managing emotions, making sure that I’m drafting contracts that are fair and reasonable and serve everybody. There’s all those different things that I can control, but ultimately, someone has to make that decision.
Daniel:Yeah. Ultimately, the sale is out of your hands because it requires somebody other than you. Everything you just described has one thing in common; they’re your actions that you take. People are attaching their confidence and their happiness to something that is out of their control. No matter how good you are at your job that a result is out of your control, always.
What I really encourage people to do is actually to start measuring themselves consciously and quite objectively on their actions rather than their results. That’s the only thing you can control, so it’s the only outcome you actually have any real influence over. Now, ultimately some people will say, well if I do my job well, I’ll get results. Yeah that’s the case, but doing your job well is the only bit you can actually control. The results, you could be doing everything perfectly and nobody wants to live there. That’s out of your control.
When you think about it, how much sense does it make to attach how you feel about yourself to something you have absolutely no control over? How is that going to lead to ongoing confidence and happiness?
Teri:I love that. We’ve come full circle too to where you focus, which is that confidence piece. You do work primarily with men, don’t you, in Auckland there?
Daniel:Not exactly. I do have a subset of work that’s primarily with men and social confidence and things like that, but yeah I do work with the full range as well.
Teri:The full range!
Daniel:Man, woman, dogs, everything.
Teri:That’s hysterical, nice. I think my cat might need some help.
Daniel:Yeah, yeah, cat’s often do.
Teri:I know that you’d launched a bro – what did you two call it?
Teri:BroJo. Why don’t you share a little bit about what you’re doing with that program?
Daniel:Cool! The BroJo is a, we call it essential like skills for men. It’s the answer to what’s missing for men in modern society. It came about from my own journey. We talked about my work history a little bit, what led to coaching. What really led me to coaching was what was happening behind the scenes, which was my own journey with self-confidence.
The first 25 years of my life I didn’t know this, but I lacked it severely, self-confidence. I was what I call a Nice Guy. Now a Nice Guy, a lot of people they really get their hackles up when I say being a Nice Guy is a bad thing but I really wanted to find what a Nice Guy is. For a first part, Nice Guy is manipulative. His entire actions are based on making people like him. That’s his whole purpose in life is to be liked by as many people as strongly as possible. Nothing keeps a Nice Guy awake more than being disliked.
As you know, everybody has hugely different tastes, so to try and be liked by everyone would be impossible if you were being authentic. Just by being alive, you would piss somebody off, if you were being authentic. The only way you could be liked by everyone, Nice Guys often are, is to be completely fake. It’s to be a different person to everybody that you interact with. Mostly it’s to hide things about you that would upset the other person, and I was one of those. I didn’t realize it; it wasn’t a conscious decision I made. I’ve since traced it back to childhood and figured out my own lifelong pattern that led me to be this way but I’m not the only one. There are many, many guys who are like this.
What I found was lacking for me, which women in general, these are all general comments, but women in general have a surplus of, is support. What men often lack growing up is masculine role modelling and teaching us what it means to be a man.
Daniel:Especially in a world, post-hardcore feminism, where men got the misinterpretation that women wanted us to be more like them, which is just so not the case. We kind of interpreted it that way. Everybody has this, this isn’t just male-specific, but you have this thing growing up where you’re told all the fairy tales and all the movies and your parents and teachers tell you to just be yourself, but nobody tells you what that actually means. They just say just be yourself.
Then you start being yourself because you’re a child and you start acting out, and you get told off for it. You get punished for being yourself. You get really confused as to what it means to be yourself because being yourself seems to upset a lot of people. You start developing this murky fake version. Like, okay, so being myself means I show this part but not this part. It means that I pretend to be that and I hide this. You develop this persona. Or in the case of people like myself, you develop about a thousand different personas that suit different people.
Teri:Guilty, done it.
Daniel:So many people have. That was my journey. The main reason it took me 25 years to figure out not only that I was doing that but that it wasn’t working for me, and it wasn’t bringing me happiness, it wasn’t really keeping anybody very happy, nobody was winning from me being like this, was that nobody pointed it out. There was nobody there to say, have you actually thought about what you’re doing and how that affects people, and how that affects you and why you’re staying awake every night trying to figure out why things aren’t working for you? Have you ever stopped to think that that’s maybe your behavior that’s causing —? Nobody said that stuff to me, and if they had, I would have listened because I was all ears for a solution.
All the time growing up I’m like, something’s wrong about the way I’ve living and I can’t figure out what it is. Essentially, BroJo grew out of the idea that I wasn’t the only one. There are a lot of men in this situation. Again, this is very generalistic but women are raised to be quite comfortable with communicating face to face with other women, sharing emotions, sharing negativity, talking about problems.
Teri:Yeah, go in deep. Yeah, totally, where guys are like patting each other on the back, talking about work, surface —
Daniel:Exactly, all this kind of stuff, which really steers them away from true masculinity and confidence. The idea is that actually if we share, we’ll become feminine. That’s the big fear, is that we’ll become women and it’ll be this promise-keeper-type stuff where we’ll just sit around crying and —
Teri:Hugging each other.
Daniel:Yeah. [00:37:59] patted me on the back. It’d be like that. What BroJo is like, it’s more understanding that men, again in general, prefer this linear-logical series-of-events approach. Whereas if you put a man in a group of women talking about their issues, he won’t understand what’s going on. It’ll be this foreign language for him. Women do this great thing where they talk at the same time with each other and the guys are sitting there baffled. They can’t hear either of them. Whereas he doesn’t understand that there’s a sub-communication happening, where women talk on this different level that guys often can’t reach.
What guys need is other guys to say that this is – you’re at Level 3 and this is Level 7, and this is how you get to Level 4 and Level 5, that kind of approach to solving issues and sharing. They don’t need to sit around hugging and crying, like they think it’s going to be, it’s actually going —
Teri:They just need accurate instructions.
Daniel:Yeah, and they need somebody just going, dude, you’re doing it wrong. Challenging, they like to be challenged. Guys love to be challenged, as long as they respect the person challenging them and it’s a safe place in the [00:39:03].
Daniel:I figured I’d need that and once I put it together and the other guys started showing up, I realized there was a big hunger for it. I based it on these articles I read about tribes in Central and South Africa. These untouched tribes that basically stay away from civilization, and despite how distant they are from each other and having no contact with each other, they often have really similar traditional rituals, the guys.
One of those is that about the age of puberty, the guy gets stolen away from his mother. It’s this kind of ceremonial cutting of the umbilical cord, the apron strings. He is taken away for anything from days to months to years with adult men to learn what it means to be a man. One will teach them how to hunt; one will teach them how to fight; one will teach them how to be the chief; one will teach him how to woo a woman or whatever, he gets taught what it means to be a man by the tribe standards. In modern society that is missing. Guys do not have that.
We’re mostly a generation of men raised by women. We are told what it means to be a man by a woman. I’m not saying women are wrong but they kind of are.
Teri:Now hold on!
Daniel:Just to rile some people. When I say men, what I really mean is masculinity. There are women who can be masculine and there are men who can be feminine. What I’m talking about is not so much male as gender, male as masculinity, so understand if you’re a masculine person you’re a different person to a feminine person. It’s a difference in the way you act and think.
Teri:I’m raising two boys; I have two sons 26 and 19, radically different men. A lot of their raising is by me; sorry boys that’s just the way it is. I have often thought that they needed more strong male role models. When I say strong male role models, I mean men who really are, I think, introspective, know themselves, are comfortable in their own skin. By the way, I’m asking a lot of these men role models because their own mom is struggling with those same issues.
Getting that man who can teach them how to be a man and do it in a way that they can feel good about themselves and be themselves. My oldest for sure got in a lot of trouble but I do think that this is a big – and again, this is a conversation that matters on a larger scale because we’re operating as a – the world’s getting smaller and smaller. I think that the violence is probably a direct offset of the lacking of direction and knowing what it means to be a strong man without having to beat your chest and shoot everything in sight.
I haven’t got answers, obviously, but I do think you’re onto something really important. Where do you see this going?
Daniel:It comes down to my overall mission, which is to create more confidence in the world. This is all this is about. I’m trying to think, how does this relate to real estate, and there is something that it relates to and this is sales.
Teri:That doesn’t matter; we’re all people first.
Daniel:Sales and chasing your dream, it relates heavily to that. What a lot of guys do, or I should say what a lot of masculine people do, or want to be masculine people do, is they misunderstand that women will test them. The test is not asking them to change, it’s actually a test to see if they’ll maintain and guys don’t get this. What a guy will do is he’ll adjust because he thinks he’s being asked to change and he thinks that’s what the woman wants. What the woman wants is to see that he won’t. That he’ll show that strength and that ability to protect and be a leader, be a man.
One of the things you’ll see is, we were talking about it last night at the BroJo, a guy will sacrifice his purpose and his passion because he thinks that that’s what his partner wants. That she wants more time and commitment from him, that kind of stuff. He misinterprets that as giving up on his dreams in order to spend more time with her.
What she really wants is more quality time. It doesn’t have to be more time in quantity. It can be that half an hour you spend a day where he’s totally dedicated to her. During that time, she wants to see that he’s chasing his dreams and he won’t sacrifice those for her. That’s part of the package he comes as, that kind of stuff.
Teri:I think that is true. I’ll speak for “all” of women. I certainly —
Daniel:I’m speaking for everybody as well.
Teri:I certainly do look to my men for strength; there’s no question about it. I don’t know if that’s societal – the way we’ve been raised and what our different roles have typically been over the years. I was a stay-at-home mom for many years, so I played mommy and wifey and all those things. I know that I’ve struggled with how much of my dream and career can I pursue and still be fulfilling that wife role and mother role to my children.
I think it is difficult to find your balance and to know how much can I serve and love myself and do the things that I need to do for me, while still being that important person in your family or your partner or whoever’s life. I think women struggle with this too, honestly. If I’m being too strong and pushing too hard in my career, do you still see me as feminine? Am I still a soft place to come home at the end of your day? I think there is both sides. It’s very interesting conversation, honestly.
Daniel:I don’t have the answers. I just have questions that were put to me at some stage that changed things for me. One of the big things was understanding that sacrificing what I want is actually less attractive. A woman would rather hear me say, you know what? I can’t date you if you’re not going to let me do this. Rather than, okay, I’ll stop doing that.
Teri:Absolutely, drop-down respect. I mean I [love it 00:45:24] it but I’m certainly going to respect your more for knowing what you stand for and what you want. There is no question, to me that says strength.
Daniel:Mm. It applies to things like sales as well. If you’re willing to give discounts and be bartered down, it reduces the quality of what you’re selling.
Teri:Amen! Go on that riff because that is exactly – my people struggle with this so much, particularly newer agents when they’re starting out. We feel like we’re the imposter syndrome. We haven’t got the experience behind us. We’re not really sure what we’re doing. We know this is a huge investment for you. We feel like we need to bring it all to the front. We do posture a little bit and then that feels inauthentic and so then everything’s off, so then you feel like you have to discount. It’s this brutal cycle that we all go through when we first start, unless you happen to be blessed and land on a great team starting up at the door, but so many of us don’t.
How can we enter into a situation like that, feeling more confident?
Daniel:This is one of those things where I understand that there’s a process that I’ve learned that changed my whole life. That is that the action comes before the feeling, not afterwards. This changed everything. It’s the same with planning; action comes before the planning not afterwards. A lot of people wait to feel right before they do what they need to do. It’s the other way round. You do what’s right and it will make you feel good.
Let’s say, yeah, you want to feel good about not budging on the price of something. Holding strong to what is valuable. You don’t wait to feel confident before you hold strong. You hold strong and that will create confidence. It goes in reverse, which means you have to experience fear. It means you have to choose to experience fear and discomfort and understand that you’re not alone. All the people out there that you admire who are doing the great things, they’ve all been through that, and most likely are still going through it. One of the biggest things about being an entrepreneur or being somebody who’s trying to make it themselves, like any sort of commission-based job, that kind of thing is you get this devastating loneliness. You think it’s just me and I’m doing it all wrong and everybody else has it sorted and I’m terrible, you know this kind of —
Teri:Complete isolation, yeah.
Daniel:Yeah, like I’m out of my depth, why did I bother blah, blah, blah. Everybody had a story. Just understanding that everybody has a story can be a huge release.
Daniel:Ah sweet! That’s how it actually goes for everyone. Okay, I can accept that. One of the best things I ever did for my coaching was double my prices. At a certain level I decided – I just saw a random Facebook post from some coach saying double your prices. I was like, alright, why not because whatever I’m doing is not really working for me right now. I was like well I can’t get any worse so I’m just going to try it.
Teri:There is that perceived value. When you discount, discount, discount, it’s like, well you mustn’t be worth very much, honestly.
Daniel:Right. One of the best things to understand is people do not make decisions logically. As much as we’d like to believe we do. We use logic to rationalize emotional decisions. The logic comes second. The decision comes first, and before the decision comes an emotional reaction. If you’re so confident in the value of your house that you’re not willing to move on the price, they will feel that and will think this house must be worth it.
As soon as you can budge, then for a start they don’t trust you because they’re like, wow, they were willing to rip me off because they don’t actually need to charge that much. They were willing to charge me more than the house is worth so they obviously don’t respect me. They obviously can’t be trusted, and if they can move this much, they can probably move a lot more and so on and so on. This thought pattern goes through.
I’m not going to tell people how to do real estate —
Teri:There is a lot there that we can adopt. We’ll have another conversation another day around the art of negotiation and we’re to come in and position and all those sorts of things. In terms of just having the confidence when you’re entering into a negotiation, I think you were down a path that was really good.
Daniel:I think the main thing there that really sticks with me is this – all the work that I do is around valued living. It’s living by your core values. Living by the rules that you think exist rather than breaking those rules all the time. One thing is understanding and being willing to lose a client because they’re not seeing the value that you see. It’s like they’re not worthy of buying the house if they don’t think it’s worth what you think it’s worth.
Teri:In our world, the client does not – we get paid when there’s a close in North America, and I’m not exactly sure what it’s like in New Zealand. In North America, we get paid when the deal closes. We get that piece and that’s been negotiated upfront before we’ve taken the listing, or for working with the buyer, same difference.
Sometimes in the middle of a deal they’ll try to talk you down because something went sideways. They had to cut their price more than they thought they would have to. There’s a million different discussions around that. The point is, is the good agents know when that’s reasonable and know when that’s flat out completely unreasonable and they stick to it.
I completely agree with you; it is a confidence issue. It does come from experience and going through the motions and knowing what your core values are, what you stand for, the type of client that you really want to work with and attracting those clients, just by virtue of how you carry yourself, how you represent yourself in the world.
Daniel:Yeah. I think what I’m really talking about here is the philosophy of abundance. One of the questions that might have been raised by what I said before is you take the action then you feel confident, is well how do you take the action if you’re not feeling confident. How does that work?
Daniel:Well first is understand that you don’t need to feel anything to take an action. Feeling doesn’t dictate how you behave. You choose to behave a certain way, you can – for example, I work with a lot of people with social anxiety and I get them to approach strangers to overcome it. They don’t feel confident approaching those strangers; usually they’re bricking it. They can still walk and talk, so the action can still be taken. They don’t need to feel good to take the action. It’s a myth that that’s required.
The other thing is understanding, how do you get yourself into the mindset of somebody who is confident before you take action? It’s not exactly faking it but it’s just having a self-awareness, how I behave if I was confident? What would I do differently? I used to have this mantra that used to keep me going, which was what would a confident person do, whenever I was unsure.
Teri:Mine is what would Beyoncé do? What would my hero, Beyoncé, do? She’s scared; she’ll take it.
Daniel:Yeah, yeah, I love that. Mine used to be, what would a confident person do? Another one, if you’re in real estate what would I do if I had ten people waiting to buy this house? What would I do if I had 100 houses about to close?
Teri:Right. There’s no scarcity in the way. We’re not fearful of losing any money or losing any clients. We’re going to be completely abundant and it’s all going to work out in the end, so therefore, how’s that going to affect how I handle this situation?
Daniel:It comes from understanding you have to believe that it’s abundance that sells, not scarcity. At lot of people will think, well I don’t have 100 houses to close and I don’t have ten people waiting; I’ve got no one waiting. Nobody wants to buy this piece of crap. I should just sell it to whoever I can get my hands on, but that desperation will drive that one buyer away. That’s what people don’t see, the link. Their neediness drives people away. They know that when people try to sell to them but they can’t reverse it.
Teri:In this noisy world, let’s just pull it back. We’ve been talking for a while now but let’s – I would love to go quickly into in this very noisy world, salesy, salesy, salesy, you’ve done a great job of building your own business and generating your own sales and your own clients, so we know that you understand this concept. How would you advise, just as a final last tip before we go into our legacy question, how would you advise an agent to approach that, just carry on where you were kind of – you know what I mean?
How should an agent approach, when they’re starting out, they have no business, they are scared frankly, they’re fearful; there is a mindset of scarcity. I have nothing happening, I have no business coming, I don’t know where it’s coming. How do they get past that to a place of creating a business?
Daniel:Great question. What a lot of people do when they’re starting out is they feel that they have no experience and no results yet. There’s nothing to base any confidence on. There’s no evidence. When that happens, look to other areas in your life where you’ve succeeded because there are others. The fact that you’re alive today means that you did something well. You at least finished your breakfast. You at least managed to survive this long, despite all the perils out there in the world, so go back and find other things that you succeeded in doing.
A really common one for example is learning how to drive a car. When you first get into a vehicle, it’s terrifying, especially – I think you guys call it as stick shift over there —
Daniel:A lot of people don’t know what those are anymore because they’re just being phased out, but that’s – it’s like trying to drive a spaceship, right?
Daniel:You got all this stuff going on in and it’s like a bit of a dance with the perfect muscle movement of your feet and the clutch and a little [00:55:34] steering and other people and the fact that you’re in something that kills people regularly, it’s a terrifying experience. Ten years later, you’re texting and eating and driving and you don’t even pay attention.
A lot of people are okay to learn how to drive in spite of that fear because they see so much evidence that other people have done it. You look around, everyone’s driving so therefore I must be able to learn how to do it, but they don’t look for that in other areas of their life where they’re not so obvious, like starting your own business. You don’t see hundreds and thousands of entrepreneurs – you don’t see everyone being an entrepreneur successfully and assume, well that must happen for me as well.
In order to create that experience, you need to do a transference-type thing. Rather than going, okay, I haven’t sold any houses yet, go what else have I managed to influence people to do, or what else did I do that I thought was really difficult and it took me a long time to learn it, now I’m good at it. What was the underlying concept? Rather than, okay, well I drove my car on a Wednesday and a Saturday, every day – every week for a year and I got my learner license or whatever you guys call it over there. Rather than doing that, go well I put a lot of hours in, I got mentoring. I kept doing it even when I felt scared of doing it. I trusted that I would eventually learn it. These are the underlying concepts that you can now apply to this new thing that you’re doing.
You know you can learn how to drive a car. You know that you finished your degree at university, or you know that you dated someone long enough for them to become your partner. You know that you played in a sport – there’s something you’ve done in your life successfully, otherwise you wouldn’t be here.
Daniel:If you can get through that process, you can get through any other. It’s the same thing; it’s learning a new skill until you’re good at it. It’s one of those thing, some people are natural at things; they learn them quicker. Other people apply a bit of learning technique to learn something quicker or they get a bit of luck. In the end, anyone can do anything if they go at it long enough.
Teri:Maybe not the fast —
Daniel:If you enjoy it.
Teri:No basketball star or anything like that, that’s probably not my immediate future but I can shoot a hoop.
Daniel:Right, exactly. You could get to the point where you play in some sort of local game or whatever and do it to a point where you’re still better than 95% of people out there because they’ve never done it. It’s the same with real estate. You might not end up being Richard Kiyosaki or whatever his name is. Robert, Richard?
Teri:Robert Kiyosaki, yes.
Daniel:Yeah, yeah, right, Robert.
Teri:Poor Dad, Rich Dad. Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
Daniel:Yeah, yeah. You might not end up being him but you could still be the person who makes six figures a year. You could still be the person who has a great lifestyle.
Teri:In fact that’s a completely reasonable goal that most can achieve if they apply the right principles and be prepared to do the work, frankly. I think the problem is with real estate, I think we attract a lot of people who have a misconception about what the business is going to be. I think they think it’s going to be turnkey and they’re going to walk in and everything’s just going to start magically happening for them and they just show up and sell houses. Of course, they learn pretty quickly that that is not the case. That it’s like anything else; it’s a lot of hard work and they need to invest in themselves and in their business. Once they grasp that concept and they’re ready to show up and do the hard work, then there are many, many successful agents, many.
Daniel:Yeah. Just like when you’re learning how to drive a car, there are the times that you stalled. There a couple of little fender benders that you had. There are times you didn’t take the corner properly or there are times where you just couldn’t get up and do it and you had to wait until the next day or whatever. If you can assume that whatever it is you’re learning is just like that, it will be the same process and you’re willing to go through that then you’ll be fine. It’ll just be a matter of time and effort that’s all it is.
Teri:Why do people need coaching? Why can’t we just do this stuff on our own?
Daniel:One thing I’d say is that nobody needs it to survive, but how quickly you want to make progress and how many mistakes you want to make before you get it right, will be quite often determined by coaching, which is why I invest in coaching.
Daniel:I wanted my business to get off the ground quickly rather than, say, ten years of misery. Now I could have done it all by myself, by trying every possible idea as to how to make it work and got into heaps and heaps of debt, and done it that way. That’s an option for me. That’s an option for anyone.
Whenever I’m talking to someone who is considering whether or not to enroll with me for coaching, I almost always say, you don’t need this. You can live without this. This is not food. This is not medical care. This is not the fire service. You can do without this, buy how well you do, is whether or not you invest in it.
If you want to take – I took about five years of personal work on my own social confidence and my self-confidence before I started getting support. Then next six months, I made more progress than I had in the five years before.
Daniel:That’s why you invest in coaching. It’s because you have someone there who can just – it allows you to troubleshoot and move forward so much more quickly. I think I heard a quote that’s really the best way to put it, people want coaching because we all desire someone who will make us do what we need to do. That’s the way to see it.
Teri:Right, that accountability.
Daniel:Yeah. Frankly, coaching isn’t even about accountability; it’s about learning how to be accountable to yourself. Creating this same way – it’s not like you want to do it because the coach wants you to do it. You want to do it because you know it’s the right thing to do.
Teri:Plus you’ve probably got into the position of setting some actual concrete goals that may have been very loose before you worked with your coach. You kind of knew what you wanted to do but you certainly didn’t have deadlines. You certainly didn’t have the structure. It might have happened eventually but it wasn’t like, okay, by next week at noon, this is done.
Daniel:I think there’s a great – I’m a big fan of Eben Pagan, he’s a serial entrepreneur. He’s worth following. The guy is the guru of all gurus. It’s funny because very few people that I speak to know of him but he’s probably one of the most successful guys on the planet. Any kind of area you want to look at, health, wellbeing, business, money, he kills it in everything.
Daniel:Yeah, he’s just such an awesome dude. One of the things he talks about in business is usually the most successful approach is counterintuitive. Whatever you think should work, doesn’t; it’s the opposite that works.
Teri:Why is that?
Daniel:It’s because we’re educated as we grow up by people who are just following patterns rather than doing what works. We don’t have time to get into what I think of the school system and stuff like that.
Teri:That’s a whole another conversation.
Daniel:Yeah. Let’s just say the evidence is there to show that it’s really guiding us away from what works rather than towards it. What I was doing for those first five years of conscious self-development and not really making much progress, but just chipping away at it like a hard worker every day trying the stuff was I was trying stuff that didn’t work and not realizing it.
I was trying stuff that I just – like being nice, a Nice Guy where you try and please everyone. Often trying to win – to actually be loved or whatever it is you’re trying to achieve, they’re just try to be more nice rather than realizing that being nice is the wrong way to go. Even understanding it’s not the behavior; it’s the motive behind the behavior that’s creating the dissatisfaction. It’s fine to help someone but to help someone because you want them to like you that’s where it gets toxic. Help someone where you don’t care what they react, that’s different.
It’s the same with business and coaching. The coach might be able to go, hey, that’s not how it’s done and suddenly just wake you up to the idea, or just make you see it. You go, okay, so you tried that for six months, what are your results? You just stop and go, oh damn, there are none. Maybe that doesn’t work. I did that with – I was trying Google AdWords for coaching.
Now Google Adwords, perfectly reasonable tool to advertise for certain things. For people to sign up to intensive coaching, they’re not going to click on an ad and say I want some intensive coaching. They will click on the ad. They might not sign up but they’ll click on the ad. You get these statistics telling you that all these people are clicking and that they’re just absolutely excited about the wording and the perfect little diction that you’ve got in your ad and they’re clicking away and costing you a lot of money.
I spent six months and about $6,000 getting those statistics up and up and up. Then my coach at the time, [01:04:25], he said so how many people have you got from that? My world shattered. I said none, I’ve got none. Well the statistics are meaningless; there’s nobody who’s actually enrolled to coaching.
Everybody that enrolled to coaching had been people I’d approached and spoken to and invited to a session; that’s what actually worked. I was like, oh my God, I’ve spent six grand in six months before I realized that, and I just needed one person to question because I was looking at the wrong thing and I didn’t know it.
Teri:Yeah, completely agree. I do think that that is invaluable. That team partner person you can bounce ideas off of and have it reflected back to you what you’re even doing. Sometimes just can’t see it.
Daniel:Here’s the other thing about coaching, you’re not investing in the coach; you’re investing in yourself. If you can’t do that, how do you expect to build the courage to build your own business, or to become really successful, or to take the risks you need to take in order to be the best, if you can’t even give yourself a bit of faith? If someone’s thinking about enrolling with you for support with real estate, yeah, they can do it themselves, but if they don’t even have the courage to invest in themselves by working with you, how are they going to have the courage to do it all by themselves? That’s even scarier.
Teri:I think so many people are just starting out in this business where they just honestly don’t know where to point their nose. I feel for them, again, it’s a challenge. It is for so many entrepreneurs in any industry really. You have this idea of how much – you don’t want to put out too much money because you’re worried about what’s going to come in. There is, again, that scarcity mindset I think. It is a big one to get over.
We could talk about this all day long. You are so insightful. You have so much knowledge and wisdom. I’m really, really grateful that you decided to join me for this conversation. I think we touched on some big stuff, frankly. Some pretty big stuff.
Daniel:Yeah, I don’t know, since I started coaching I just can’t have a normal conversation anymore; it always has to get all epic and philosophical. It’s fun. It’s [01:06:31].
Teri:I’m down for the epic and philosophical; that’s super-cool.
Here’s something I ask all of my guests. This is why we’re doing conversations that matter; life matters, we’re here going around once as far as I can tell. What I want to know and from all of my guests – I invite particular people for particular reasons. Usually I have a very strong affinity, I love your mind, I love the way you work, I love your values, those sorts of things. I wanted to ask what is it – you’re at the end of your life, you’re looking back, how does Daniel want to reflect on what his life meant? What is the legacy that you want to leave?
Daniel:Yeah that’s a good question. It’s what drives me forward. Its’ what I said before, I’ve developed the belief, or the theory you might say, that the secret to happiness is not pursuing happiness; it’s actually pursuing self-confidence. I want to teach people that. Not what it means for them and how to live, but the process to develop self-confidence.
I want to have an impact where basically the legacy I leave behind is that people are upgraded in confidence.
Teri:Oh, I love that.
Daniel:It really started with offenders, where I saw as the most common cause of criminal activity was self-confidence issues, 100%. Often it looks like it’s alcohol and drug issues, but alcohol and drugs came from self-confidence issues.
Daniel:There was only a few offenders who I considered to be genuinely confident people and they were the psychopaths. These are the ones who I’m like, watch out. They love themselves. They have no self-confidence issues. They also really enjoy hurting people, so that’s a different kettle of fish. 98% of the people I worked with, and that figure is probably pretty accurate, they were trying to fill a hole in themselves through their activities. They were lashing out based on feelings of self-loathing and low self-worth.
What I’ve realized in my short time on this planet is you can learn self-worth; you can learn confidence. It’s a way of taking responsibility for your actions in your own mind and engaging in activities that increase your self-confidence. That’s all it is. Anybody can do it. Just like anybody can learn how to drive a car or communication or whatever. There’s very few people, I think who have the actual mentor limitations that would stop them building self-confidence.
I know this guy; he’s in Idaho I think. He’s got Down’s Syndrome and he runs a restaurant.
Daniel:I know plenty of people with high IQs who wouldn’t know how to run a restaurant.
Teri:Yeah, me, me one.
Daniel:[Sean Stevenson], he’s a great example of somebody who hasn’t let physical disability get in the way. It just shows that unless – out of all the people I’ve worked with, unless there’s significant brain damage, so a person’s been significantly violently abused, or drinks methylated spirits or something like that, as long as your brain is relatively functional, you can learn self-worth because I think the theory I’m eventually getting to is that you’re born with it. All it is, is rediscovering it.
Teri:Boy, we chip away at that don’t we? Then it’s like you have to come full circle and go back and find it and build yourself back up again.
Daniel:I heard a quote that I think defines it. You’ll have to excuse my French here, so the quote is that we’re all diamonds covered in horse shit, covered in nail polish.
Daniel:It’s from the book, “Supercoach” by Michael Neill, I think his name is.
Teri:I love it.
Daniel:The way I understand that is we started off fine and then everybody else piled their crap on top of us, their fears, their misconceptions about the way the world works, their attempts to control us and all that kind of stuff. That’s where all the crap got piled on. Then we tried to make that crap look good. Like, well that’s who we are now, so we’ll ty and make it look good, when actually we started off spot on; that authenticity that I always talk about, that complete vulnerability.
One of the things I’d like to say is that being completely vulnerable makes you invincible. There’s nothing that can be used against you once it’s all out in the open. It’s like Eminem at the end of 8 Mile. He does a big rap and then the guy’s got nothing left to say. Authenticity is this courageous vulnerability. We go, whatever I am, I’m just going to let that come out and I’m going to accept however that affects the world, rather than trying to moderate whatever it is.
Teri:That’s so epic and I think we need to ruminate on that for a while. Just really think about who even am I. I bet there are so many layers of stuff that we’ve all forgotten a little bit who we even actually are. That’s stuff that we need to peel back the layers and get really raw.
Daniel:Yeah. One of the questions I set out to answer is what is the ‘how’ in just be yourself. How do you actually do it? It’s such a vague question and it’s such an impossible question to answer. The closest I’ve come so far and this is a work in progress, is you simply don’t try to be anything else. The word ‘try’ there, the effort you put into trying to keep other people happy, or trying to impress someone, or trying to be cool, or trying to be interesting, you take away all that effort and you just see what actually comes out.
What comes out when you take the filters off? What comes out when you stop moderating yourself? At first it’s a nightmare I’ll promise you that because it’s going to be this – you’re waking this dormant beast in you that’s got a lot of things it wanted to say over the years and finally it gets to speak. That starts to play itself out and what you find is this relief in not having to try. Just being spontaneous and mindful and just whatever comes into your head comes out. Whatever action you want to take, you take. You’re not trying to achieve anything; you’re just being. It’s this just letting you happen.
Daniel:Just observe it. Just watch it.
Teri:I love that. I think that’s the thing.
Daniel:The closest I can come so far.
Teri:That’s going to be the theme of our Conversation that Matters, is learning to just be, which is, I think, beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
I think we’re going to rap it there, Daniel. I am so grateful that you joined me for this conversation. It’s so powerful. I do these as a passion project for myself because frankly, I just loving having them but they’re so good and I’m super-grateful.
If someone wanted to get in touch with you, what is the best way? I know you have that inspirational – what is your website?
Teri:thatinspirationallifestyle.com is the website. How else can they reach out to you if they want to connect?
Daniel:I like connecting with people one to one. They can just email me, it’s just firstname.lastname@example.org, nice big word for an email there.
Daniel:Just look me up online or whatever. I don’t have any filters in between contacting me. You can phone me or Skype me, whatever it is; I’m happy to talk to anyone.
Teri:You can give me those details and I’ll make sure to include those in our post. That’s awesome. Thanks so much; I really appreciate it. You are a rock star coach, you really are. Thanks, Daniel.
Teri:Awesome. I loved talking to you.